Not NaNoWriMo: Superheroes World-Building
Nov. 1st, 2022 08:18 pmI've poked around at a variety of projects and one I would *like* to get back to, but is on the backburner because I just don't "get" it enough, has been the concept of superheroes in space. That is, not 'low Earth orbit' or 'villain has a secret base on the moon' or anything like that, but a story about superheroes out there in the galaxy, visiting different places.
But I really do enjoy superheroes as a literature.
So, a couple of things that need to go together:
One. Superheroes. I can come up with individual heroes, but I'm not sure I adequately understand how to fit them together, or make them work. What are your favorite heroes, what do you like most about them? What do you think your heroes would do, given access to a starship and a map to Local Space?
Two. Galactic science fiction. Once you have cheap and convenient space travel, you usually also have abundant power, resources, and space. The individual power level of your average police-person, soldier, or armed warship goes up correspondingly, to a point where some fellow running around in tights punching people out from the shadows might seem more like a dangerous vigilante than an actual hero.
It feels to me like superheroes and villains might turn into... celebrities, consultants, or maybe they might confine their superpowered deeds to the frontiers where the general power levels are a lot lower.
Is the solution here, make the superpowered people more powerful, lower the generally available 'power level', maybe by way of some kind of apocalypse that forces people to turn to superheroes for help, while supervillains try to provide order "their own way"? Or go with the idea of celebrities, people famous for their own sake, and having powers simply enrolls one into a system where the question is how they use that power? What would *you* want to see?
Distance is also an issue, but one that can be solved with discreet application of technology. Star systems are, relatively speaking, entire states, so one can travel between "cities" -- planets, space stations, asteroid mining bases, that sort of thing, relatively quickly -- but going between systems without a convenient hyperspace gateway in the middle is going to Take Time (tm), in which the hero won't be available to solve crime in their normal beat. Contrariwise, villains probably rely on that same factor to elude pursuit-- things getting too hot in one system? Time to take a long trip!
Three. Superhero stories. This is possibly the biggest stumbling block. I like *reading* them, but I'm way less confident about writing one, especially one that involves multiple superheroes in a given sector of space. Maybe tell me about some of your favorite superhero stories, or things you *do* want to see, and things you *don't* want to see.
The most obvious story is, of course, some grave threat to all existence within a sector, but that's way too heavy-handed to me. I want to write stories that explore life in a galaxy that has some finite number of superheroes and villains, so they need to interact with one another, and existence can't be on the line every time, that just gets old fast. Stopping crime is the next obvious thing, I guess, followed by assisting in the wake of natural disasters. But what else do superheroes get up to?
Anyway, this isn't for a NaNoWriMo *this* year, but it could be for something next year!
But I really do enjoy superheroes as a literature.
So, a couple of things that need to go together:
One. Superheroes. I can come up with individual heroes, but I'm not sure I adequately understand how to fit them together, or make them work. What are your favorite heroes, what do you like most about them? What do you think your heroes would do, given access to a starship and a map to Local Space?
Two. Galactic science fiction. Once you have cheap and convenient space travel, you usually also have abundant power, resources, and space. The individual power level of your average police-person, soldier, or armed warship goes up correspondingly, to a point where some fellow running around in tights punching people out from the shadows might seem more like a dangerous vigilante than an actual hero.
It feels to me like superheroes and villains might turn into... celebrities, consultants, or maybe they might confine their superpowered deeds to the frontiers where the general power levels are a lot lower.
Is the solution here, make the superpowered people more powerful, lower the generally available 'power level', maybe by way of some kind of apocalypse that forces people to turn to superheroes for help, while supervillains try to provide order "their own way"? Or go with the idea of celebrities, people famous for their own sake, and having powers simply enrolls one into a system where the question is how they use that power? What would *you* want to see?
Distance is also an issue, but one that can be solved with discreet application of technology. Star systems are, relatively speaking, entire states, so one can travel between "cities" -- planets, space stations, asteroid mining bases, that sort of thing, relatively quickly -- but going between systems without a convenient hyperspace gateway in the middle is going to Take Time (tm), in which the hero won't be available to solve crime in their normal beat. Contrariwise, villains probably rely on that same factor to elude pursuit-- things getting too hot in one system? Time to take a long trip!
Three. Superhero stories. This is possibly the biggest stumbling block. I like *reading* them, but I'm way less confident about writing one, especially one that involves multiple superheroes in a given sector of space. Maybe tell me about some of your favorite superhero stories, or things you *do* want to see, and things you *don't* want to see.
The most obvious story is, of course, some grave threat to all existence within a sector, but that's way too heavy-handed to me. I want to write stories that explore life in a galaxy that has some finite number of superheroes and villains, so they need to interact with one another, and existence can't be on the line every time, that just gets old fast. Stopping crime is the next obvious thing, I guess, followed by assisting in the wake of natural disasters. But what else do superheroes get up to?
Anyway, this isn't for a NaNoWriMo *this* year, but it could be for something next year!
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 04:08 am (UTC)Also, the matter of being in space -- what specifically appeals to you about being in space? Do you want space-SHIPS ... or is it just the "other worlds" aspect you're keen on?
On the latter point: One thought that has occurred to me regarding the problems with space travel is, what if there were other dimensions along which one could travel? (I am trying to avoid saying "go to another dimension" as seems to get used in the comics world, as if a dimension were a finite place and not a ... uh ... DIMENSION. That is, dimension != universe; dimension != world.) So maybe the cool way to get around is "alt-world travel," and they might be sufficiently different from each other to be quite alien to a certain degree. And then the origin of "superheroes" could be from one -- or more, but not ALL -- of those connected alt-worlds.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 04:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 04:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 02:25 pm (UTC)On a semi-related note, I feel like many superpower "systems" have a kind of backwards approach to which powers are more ... powerful. I've had a rough time trying to figure out how to articulate my thoughts on this, so I apologize for getting rambly.
Basically, I envision that among powers that might have any sort of a quasi-science aspect to them, destruction is easy, whereas restoration and creation are hard. A scalpel, in the hands of a surgeon, could be used to help heal. In the hands of an idiot, it's perfectly fine for stabbing.
So many times, the guy who can make things go KABOOM is seen as the powerful one. And, on an emotional, threat-assessment level, I can understand why other people might see it that way. However, in terms of sheer complexity, the person who can heal people, or at the extreme, could actually conjure up objects out of her mind and somehow they actually work -- well, that's amazingly more complicated. If, mentally, it only consists of the superheroine putting her hands on someone and wishing them to be better and then -- presto -- they are, then for me that's unavoidably magic, in a classical sense: It requires a sophisticated, arguably intelligent agent to be able to translate your desire to "heal" into action. Repairing wounds and removing disease from the body involve very different processes, and for starters it would need to be able to tell those apart. And, if in this cosmology it really is down to the superheroine deliberately manipulating forces every step of the way, not only must she have the power to reach into someone's body and zot harmful bacteria and remove infected tissues, but she must have the power to see and track such things.
Basically, every fundamental ability you would need in order to heal could be used to harm as well, and in potentially very frightening ways -- far more so than, I think, some fellow who can shoot fireballs from his fists.
Ditto with mind-reading, I think. Unless the writer wishes to imply that everyone is wired with the basics for mental ability, it's kind of flabbergasting to imagine someone not only having trans-dimensional senses that can pick up the neural impulses going on in someone else's mind, but furthermore translate that in such a way that they can "hear" and make sense of them. I pity the person who could "listen" to my thoughts, because I think a great deal of it would come across as utter nonsense! There are mental associations within my head, things that "make sense" in my mind because of my own experience, that I would struggle and probably FAIL to articulate aloud. And any depiction of "seeing" into someone's mind that results in crystal-clear television-like imagery ... well, hey, maybe that's what it's like inside the writer's amazing head, but definitely not mine! There is no photographic/projector screen going on in my head. And then, we could even get down to petty basics such as ... how can we ever really know for sure that the blue you see is the same as the blue I see? ;) Or, in other words, there's probably no universal standard on just how those information packets are going to look within the mind. (For similar reasons, I find "universal translator" conveniences in stories understandable for story-telling, but fundamentally absurd if you pretend to have a "hard sci-fi" tale.)
Or, in other words, when a mentalist is introduced, and he can just so effortlessly see into others' minds, and puppeteer them, it strikes me as very cheap storytelling. At that point, I can't buy it as some sort of sci-fi: it's really MAGIC, requiring some sort of intermediary spirits to translate.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 05:28 pm (UTC)I haven't really thought about how superpowered combat would work in this science fiction, space-based setting, though. There would need to be unwritten protocols everyone adheres to (and even the villains would shun the ones who break it) like 'don't break the station we live in' and 'don't endanger civilians'... Possibly the big powers of the setting subscribe to a shared accord where they band together to eliminate any existential threats, or those they brand as 'terrorists.'
Psionics aren't a complete deal-breaker but they need to have definite limits, and 'how they work'-- you don't just unlock instant, universal telepathy once you're a telepath. Someone might have a superpower based on 'daydreams of warm afternoon sunlight', which might allow them to communicate with someone else in a shared dream, but that person has to realize the first person is trying to do so, and give in, rather than dismissing the thought. Or they might be able to skim through people's surface thoughts if those people are lightly drowsing in an actual warm afternoon.
Just the same way, I would prohibit a superhero/villain from having universal 'power absorption abilities', they'd have to pick one thing to absorb at a time, and discard the one they're not using, so they'd have to think ahead. All powers would have reasonable limits and 'how they work'-- not in the physics sense, but in a narrative sense, the reader needs to have a clear idea what that character can do.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 05:56 pm (UTC)I had a similar problem in RPGs when I was playtesting a certain cyberpunk setting using Savage Worlds rules, and there was a skill for "Hacking," and in essence EVERYTHING (and EVERYONE) was "hackable," since this was a sort of hyper-cyber setting where everyone has chips in their heads, and every security robot and door and all that, so in practice all you need is a hacker to point at just about anything and reasonably have a near-50% chance or possibly even better to "hack" it in a single round. In practice, the gameplay was absolutely broken. Everyone in the party was opting to either switch off their head-link-ups or do without them entirely, because otherwise they were at theoretical constant threat that if they ran afoul of a HACKER, the guy could bypass all their skills and defenses and just go for their heads (and the only way to effectively DEFEND against a Hacker in that setting was to ... be a Hacker yourself). And whatever the problem was, the shooty guy can only so often say, "I shoot it" and expect to help, but odds were, the hacker could ALWAYS offer, "I hack it" with a reasonable chance of improving the situation.
"Magic" as a power is a bad idea. It's like having "power" as a power. Or, say, having a bunch of magic schools, and then calling one of the schools "Chaos," and having it essentially be, "Whatever cool stuff I want to be able to do at any given moment."
Re: Principled villains -- I feel like if you go that route, it has got to be more than just a Venture Brothers style Guild of Calamitous Intent. "We do bad things ... but with RULES!" Because then you have to wonder how and why they came about, how in the world it holds together, etc. More, it would need to be a competing cause. The Lawful League of Order and Universal Betterment (we work WITH the governments of these worlds), vs. the Vigilante Society of We Are Awesomer Than Everyone Else (we have superpowers, we're meant to use them, and the normies are behind the curve in evolution anyway, so we'll make a better world for tomorrow and everyone's going to like it ... OR ELSE). Effectively, the second society might well be a bunch of nasties, but at least their leadership makes a show of being for a "good cause." Even if your organization is riddled with hypocrites, you at least need a unifying (nominal) cause, or else it's just going to be anarchy, occasionally tempered by a strongman and his little fiefdom. (E.g., the best you'll get is something like mafia or yakuza, who will at least make NOISE about holding to standards, but will regularly violate them when it's convenient to do so and there are no witnesses.)
Or, hey, maybe "superpowered space yakuza" is good enough for the scope of a particular story. "Okay, so maybe those superpowered brats who feel entitled to vaporize anyone who disses them can run rampant on other worlds, but on THIS one, we've got a SYSTEM. Go home, hero. We don't need you here."
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 07:12 pm (UTC)As far as villains who just want to wreck things go, keeping in mind the technology level is generally higher, if you get too many of the Powers That Be upset with you, even if they don't have powers, they will work to stomp on you because you're losing them more money than they'd spend getting rid of you. I figure on several significant organizations, but as I've been noodling over the plot and how it might go, I'm starting to think I might need to structure this as a series of settings.
So the MC winds up in setting one, with the lowest power level, at a time that she's struggling to find her footing and come to terms with actually having powers. She transitions to setting two, then three, and so forth, in an epic travel story, each setting has its own superheroes and villains, organizations, and politics. The MC takes along whatever lessons she's learned, and hopefully tools, resources, and allies and influence with organizations.
I'd definitely have to consider your points on organizations. The 'Awesomer' society might have clashes with the 'Lawful' league, but they're both nominally fighting crime/keeping the peace, just doing it in very different places. A recommendation from the 'Awesomer' society might make the MC start off with some prejudice from the 'Lawful' league as she moves into their territory, but she has to "move up in the galaxy" if she's going to accomplish her primary objective.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 06:11 pm (UTC)But having some guy who just instantly gains powers undermines that. Any character progression, training, development, etc., just goes out the window, because usually for dramatic purposes the Big Bad or the Chosen One has to IMMEDIATELY be able to use that power he just acquired, at full effectiveness.
The other thing is that it feels very video-gamey, and often works at odds with whatever explanation was given for getting the powers in the first place. Was it a genetic mutation that gives you a link to element X? Well, not a very SPECIAL link if Mr. Monkey-See-Monkey-Do over there can just stare at you and copy it, and now is suddenly your match.
I also find it kind of stupid if you have the occasional superhero whose "power" is really more a physical thing rather than an "energy power." E.g., Stronkman is STRONK, and bench-lifts buses every day, with enormous muscles vs. just having a "strength field" that boosts his strength, so it seems kind of cheap to me if "Ms. Copycat" just spends a few seconds glaring at him, and suddenly she's got giant muscles and can punch through walls now. Bonus negative points if he's The Bull, and as part of her power-stealing she's now got horns, too.
My acceptance is improved if:
a) The copycat isn't immediately proficient in the use of any power that requires the least bit of finesse, and it will take training/practice to reach the level of someone who has already been living with that power for a time.
b) There's a limitation on the power(s) to be copied. You can only have one at a time. Maybe it takes TIME to observe and copy, or at least to do it properly. Maybe the power can only be copied for a limited amount of time, and you can't just renew it indefinitely once you find the "best" power. Certain powers can't be copied. Copying FEATURES really shouldn't be a selective thing (either it happens all the time, or never -- it shouldn't just happen when some superhero's power is intrinsically tied to his green skin or claws that pop out his hands or whatever). Copying gizmos is right out.
c) The powers themselves are presented in a way that makes them feel more "copyable." That is, if all superpowers are "pick an element and you can control it," I can sort of buy a universe in which someone could swap that out. If, however, Mr. Copycat copies ... I dunno ... BATMAN? Batarangs and ace detective skills and martial arts and all? That's another level of outright magic.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 07:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-07 01:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 04:27 am (UTC)And as such, there could be worlds that are quite unaware of any multiverse out there, and potentially "ripe for the picking" for some unscrupulous supervillain. Maybe they've got high tech and heavy hitters and all that, but a certain advantage goes to the guy who operates by a different rule-set than anything anyone around here has seen before.
If nothing else, simply having the ability to hop between different realities could be its own very significant base superpower, and its application could be the basis for different "power sets." Perhaps this one fellow has adapted a certain gift for "flow-hopping" across different worlds as a means of teleportation. That is, he has an instinct for establishing a link to some other universe that happens to be "traveling" relative to this one in a desired direction (insofar as such things might make any sense). Want to teleport from point A to point B? Find a parallel universe that is sliding in the direction you want (relative to this one), pop over to it, wait X seconds, then pop back. This power might not be entirely without risk, since it could be very easy to misjudge the exact timing or relative velocities, etc. Or, you know, maybe you can't get BACK.
Some other world hopper has established a "bond" to a specific world/reality/space. He can basically open a portal to ... a vast expanse of magma? The void of space? The bottom of the ocean? A frozen world? Align that portal, open and close it, and you could effectively have the power to shoot fire blasts or ice blasts, or intensely-focused high-pressure water cannons, or act like a giant vacuum cleaner by sending things to the void. Or, good grief, point that water blast in the right direction and you might be able to propel yourself (equal and opposite reaction...) ... but the landing might be a bit rough.
In theory, you've got a finite amount of high-pressure water, molten magma, frigid air, etc., that you could conjure in this way, but it should be enough to last a mortal lifetime.
Anyway, it's all pseudo-science, but by having the powers be based on something, it might help to set some bounds on what might be possible within the setting, so it's not quite the whole smorgasbord of possibilities (including all flavors of magic, supernatural powers, patronage by deities whose religions presumably deny each others' existence, etc.) that one might expect from any given comic book company universe (where they simply can't resist the allure of crossovers, so all their creations have to be in the "same universe").
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 04:42 am (UTC)For whatever reason, the powers anyone gets in this setting are tied to a central concept of some kind-- not usually a simple one like 'fire', but one superhero, when gaining their powers, might have seen a vision of a Venusian planet with rivers of carbon dioxide at high temperature under extreme pressure, and be able to fire streams of super-hot gas, scalding ne'er-do-wells, or propel themself into the air, etc. As they gain greater understanding of their core power image, they might be able to refine their techniques, or apply their power in new ways.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 04:31 am (UTC)As far as 'other dimensions' go, hyperspace is a dimension! Otherwise, probably no time travel or mirror universe/alternate universe stuff. Powers do seem to be connected with hyperspace in some weird way, in the setting I have in mind-- the few superheroes that exist, gained their powers when travelling in hyperspace, but not in a way that can easily be tested-- the chance is incredibly small, when compared to the vast number of people.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 02:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 02:38 pm (UTC)I should also note that Batman and Iron Man are purely "skilled normals with gadgets." Okay, maybe ridiculously skilled, but that sort of affliction is common even among "hard sci-fi" protagonists.
Fantastic Four is a lot closer to the "raw elemental force" mode of superpowers that I think is probably a lot more manageable story-wise. I mean, they all have very handy powers that can be used in a number of ways and definitely give them an edge, but it doesn't make them demigods who have to face other demigods (or wizards) in order to have anything resembling a challenge.
Ditto for Spiderman, I suppose, though it really depends on which version of Spiderman we're talking about (i.e., not "Cosmic Spiderman"), and his power set at times seems a little more "grab-bag" than Fantastic Four. ("Spidey sense" seems particularly paranormal/psychic.) But despite that, Spiderman is probably also around the power level that I think still makes for flexible storytelling -- personally impressive, can do far more than a mere mortal could, but is still going to have to work a bit to change the world, vs. Superman single-handedly solving the Cold War by zipping around the Earth, grabbing all the nukes, and tossing them into the sun.
no subject
Date: 2022-11-06 05:43 pm (UTC)I probably wouldn't include Superman exactly as the comic version either. In a science fiction setting, the one thing he really needs is to be invulnerable, he can use blasters to shoot things, or jetpacks to fly, et cetera.
Their stories would probably have to be altered too. I'd need to figure out what makes them, "them". Or riffing off of them in a purposeful way. For example, Spiderman would have a lot of trouble doing his signature web-swinging in the crowded confines of a station, so I might think about his space version being able to dissipate into a swarm of bugs and disappear into the maintenance ducts. Naturally this only works well in the poor, less-well-maintained sections of the station, the rich parts would have effective filters and cleaners that would go berserk if they detected an invasion of bugs.
no subject
Date: 2023-01-02 02:13 am (UTC)I feel like the big question is "what are the things that you like about superheroes?"
One of my favorite things about superhero stories is the shared-world element. Standalone superheroes can be fun (I actually liked the film Hancock, for example). But I think it's the sense of continuity and overlapping stories that has always fascinated me most about superheroes. The way characters change and grow, gaining and losing powers, interacting with characters from other parts of the setting -- sometimes ones who are completely different in tone and power level.
Superhero stories are always a lot more about the character than the plot, for me. There's an authorized DC Comics Webtoon about Batman & co that's 90% superheroes interacting with each other in ordinary ways and it's perfect: https://www.webtoons.com/en/slice-of-life/batman-wayne-family-adventures/list?title_no=3180
Like it helps a lot that I'm familiar with the backstories of all of these characters, because it's an important backdrop. But the emotional beats and interactions are what fascinates me.
no subject
Date: 2023-01-02 03:14 am (UTC)I do agree that nailing down things I like best would be important. I'll list off superheroes and villains that I enjoy:
Batman (as the Greatest Detective, not so much the grim, humorless purger of criminals)
Catwoman (as the Greatest Thief and a foil to the otherwise imperturbable Batman)
Iron Man (it's a juvenile fantasy, having the coolest toys, but Tom Swift and his Numerous Improbable Inventions was a thing back when too)
Doctor Doom (pre-magic phase, the man just has a ton of gravitas)
The whole Astro City series was amazing but more for the aspect of 'behind the stages on superhero comics' and the respectful way it treated the subject, too. I liked selected arcs of Doctor Strange, Green Lantern, a bunch of others, but I can't say they would be my first choices:
Doctor Strange is cool but magic is hard to work around without running into the 'Deus Ex Machina' problem-- why can't, for example, the Doc just use magic to solve any given problem right away? You wind up with too much handwaving for my tastes, versus a hero with more clearly delineated rules and boundaries.
Superman is another example of the 'cool but...' problem. If I had a Superman-alike in my universe, I'd be forever keeping him just off camera, dealing with the actual universe-ending threats, and checking in at home now and then, and the harried heroes just doing their best to reassure him that they're fine, so they don't add to the already colossal burden on his (or her) shoulders.
Green Lantern... I liked it back when but coming back to it many years later, I found myself agreeing with Sinestro that Hal Jordan and his ilk were a singularly unimaginative lot. Also the 'cool but...' problem.
I dabbled in the X-men cinematic universe but I don't like the way it always seems to devolve into humans vs mutants.
I watched a fair chunk of the Flash superhero TV series! Flash isn't bad but I'd want a more 'thinking Flash' than the impulsive one. Really, that describes how I'd want my superheroes to act in general. Take a little time to think about how best to use your powers, folks! Maybe being a costumed vigilante isn't always the most optimal use of your talents? We're looking at you, Tony Stark.
So what I'd probably do, if and when I ever get around to writing this 'for reals', would be to set up different neighborhoods, each one with its own mood and 'style' of superheroics. The MC would have various reasons for travelling from one neighborhood to another, and establishing themselves with the denizens of those areas. A Gotham-like mining colony, for example, or an industrial zone built around the rings of a gas giant for the powered armor types.